YouTuber Interview with LIBRA Creator: I Am Also a Victim

Original Interview: Coffeezilla, YouTuber Cryptocurrency Journalist;
Guest: Hayden Davis, one of the main creators of LIBRA;
Original Translation: ChatGPT

Editor's Note: Hayden Davis of Kelsier Ventures is one of the four main creators of LIBRA, with the other three being Julian Peh of the Kip Protocol, Mauricio Novelli of the Argentina Tech Forum, and Manuel Godoy. The project received support from Javier Milei on February 14, 2025. In this video, Coffeezilla interviewed Hayden in an attempt to uncover what exactly happened with LIBRA. During the interview, Hayden admitted that the LIBRA team had sniped the launch of LIBRA, and the MELANIA team had also sniped the launch of MELANIA.

The following is the original content (slightly reorganized for readability):

TL;DR

Coffeezilla: Over the past 48 hours, I've been investigating an Argentine meme coin called LIBRA. In case you're unaware, the President of Argentina publicly endorsed this meme coin, after which it crashed, leading people to question where $100 million disappeared to. I have been in contact with key figures of this event, trying to find answers. Next, you'll hear a one-hour interview with Hayden Davis, the primary figure behind this issuance, who has been involved in many of the token decisions. Currently, he holds $100 million and is contemplating what to do with these funds. You will discover during the conversation that this is not our first interaction. I have attempted to reach out to him in the past 24 to 48 hours.

This interview is not about pushing my agenda, as I am simply seeking information. I believe what we lack the most is answers. So, I am more in listening mode, although I think we got some very significant admissions in this conversation. I want to make it clear that this is not my usual "scammer" style; this was actually deliberate. Right from the start, this person was very nervous, so I didn't think responding in that way was appropriate. Everyone will have their own opinion of this person based on what you hear.

But I think a more neutral way is to let this person speak for themselves. This is his first public statement since the Twitter release. The Twitter release was only a minute long and didn't go over well. So I want to give him the chance to lay everything out in one go. The interview started abruptly because he started with some off-the-record stuff that I had to cut. However, hopefully, this interview will shed some light on the truth of the matter.

Not a "Rug Pull," but a Failed Plan to Ward Off Other Snipers

Coffeezilla: I want to ask, can we consider this part officially on the record? Because I don't want to include those private details; those things shouldn't be public. Thank you for the background, and the part about LIBRA is the focus.

Hayden Davis: Sure, the part about LIBRA is fine. Okay, let's continue. One of the issues with LIBRA is that when you go live on Meteora, you try to avoid all these snipers, but the problem is... there aren't specific measures in place, like insider control.

Hayden Davis: The real issue is, you know, on a large issuance, all the volume comes in, and then you see that this guy — unexpectedly — didn't sell much from a large wallet, I also don't understand why, but he holds $57 million, while LIBRA's market cap is $4.5 billion or $5 billion, that's where the issue lies.

Hayden Davis: It's not a $5 billion market cap. So you have to make a real-time decision, like, 'Okay, do I pull some out of the liquidity pool to protect the floor price, knowing there will be more marketing plans ahead?' or 'Do I let the chart crash.' That's what happens every time there's an issuance; 3 to 10 guys get a big chunk.

Hayden Davis: They are all terrible snipers, just looking to unload. You can't track them at all. Either it takes forever or it's just impossible. So every time there's an issuance, this happens.

Hayden Davis: As for the specifics of LIBRA, I'm glad to share, although Javier and his team told me there's a crucial interview airing on TV tomorrow, I don't feel that's entirely public, but he'll clarify me and the LIBRA project because he's clearly under public pressure. Basically, at the start of LIBRA, our goal was: 'Can we gather enough liquidity?' While some might say this is just a snippet or an incomplete statement, the goal was to gather enough liquidity because Milei is preparing to do a second video, and there are some others... I won't name names, but some high-profile individuals will participate, tweet, and release promotional videos.

So our goal is, can we pull enough liquidity at this stage to drive out these snipers, at least control them, so that when the chart drops, it doesn't destroy the whole project. Then let Milei release the second round video and reinject most of the capital, or at least most of the liquidity, creating a super large issuance. As for why he took down the post, I still don't have a clear answer. I guess he may have faced tremendous political pressure, feeling panicked as a non-crypto person. I can understand. If I were him, I would react the same way.

Now we are trying to figure out what to do next. But some say this is a "rug pull." That is obviously not true, because there are still 60 million locked in the liquidity pool, right? The market cap is 300 million, it's not a "rug pull," it's a failed plan, with 100 million in hand, I am the steward of this fund, but I don't know what to do. I don't want to be a public enemy, I didn't benefit from it, instead, my life is in danger.

Coffeezilla: Yes, there are a few points I want to address. Thank you for your explanation. Regarding the 100 million dollars, I think the public perception is that a term like "rug pull" has been widely used, basically it has acquired a colloquial meaning, referring to unfair value extraction. My understanding is that this unfair value extraction is about taking money away, and for the whereabouts of this 100 million dollars, it seems not clearly stated, so people will think they just want to profit from it, right? Everyone's view is that this 100 million is profit. So clearly something needs to be done to put this money back into the market, trying to get it back into the hands of the people. This process is certainly very complex because we need to prevent anyone from continuing to exploit this situation.

Hayden Davis: Yes, indeed. If I may add, it's also multifaceted because it's a meme coin. If you bet your whole portfolio on a meme coin, that... even though this is not financial advice, that's a very foolish behavior.

Hayden Davis: I understand, but at the same time, if you consider this, I have discussed today with several people how to assess the value of a token, especially when it's not "dead" yet. The president is likely to continue to support it, so it certainly has some room for rebound. You must control the narrative: "Well, people lose money because they chose to sell, but this token is not dead." However, the problem is, no one can give me a clear answer.

Coffeezilla: Understood. If Milei really turns around, I'd be very surprised. I think he will walk away from this, probably wash his hands of it. But I could be wrong too. I don't fully understand the whole situation. I have a question, just answer "yes" or "no": Will Milei make money from this? No, right? My second question is, were the two people involved in this issuance Manuel and Mauricio? Yes, they come from an Argentine Tech team. Right, exactly. The Kip Protocol will be responsible for operating the non-profit organization, like a foundation.

Hayden Davis: Yes, that's correct.

Coffeezilla: They had no involvement, and you were supposed to launch the coin, but you were not responsible for allocating those funds.

Hayden Davis: Yes, I can elaborate a bit more. This plan was originally an experiment, right? Milei really wanted to put everything on the chain, make everything transparent, like tokenizing all the financial transactions of all countries, right? So I and many different people, different foundations were discussing what this would look like in the coming years. The initial idea was, well, in that case, let's do an experiment to see what happens. Because, to be honest, although he supported it, this was not his official meme coin, let's make that clear. Well, let's stop there.

Coffeezilla: Yes, so you know, one very important aspect of this is that everyone is trying to figure out what exactly happened. This money was taken out of the account, and then there are allegations of insiders knowing the information before the contract was released. All these KOLs, basically, industry insiders knew about this coin before the launch, so they might have either shared this information with others, which is not good because it gave some people an unfair advantage. Second, they themselves may have profited from this information.

I think a very simple example is Dave Portnoy, who knew about this coin two weeks before the launch, right? So he knew about it. By the way, to add, although Dave claimed he knew this coin might be released, he said he did not buy before the launch or as an insider. He bought about ten minutes after Milei's tweet. If possible, he said he would buy $10 million. So to clarify, although he knew about the coin's existence, his statement is that he did not trade early. Just wanted to make sure we include that in the story. He had time to raise $5 million and traded the coin. Then he lost money, and ironically, you refunded him. This is what I think many people see as insider benefits and unfairness, and everyone will feel how manipulative it is. He traded $5 million worth of coins, lost, and then you refunded him. Right?

Hayden Davis: A few points. One, that was a mistake on my part at the time, to be honest, I can't remember the exact time, but it was late at night, I was communicating back and forth with him, I was thinking then, Milei would openly support this coin, it wouldn't be a big deal, I didn't want Dave to lose money, at that time, I didn't think about this from the perspective that everyone would question. So I might need to chat with him, I'm sure we'll discuss some different terms about those who knew about the coin. What I mean is, I can't say whether I or anyone who knew this information, Manuel or Mauricio, told anyone else.

What I can tell you is, very few people know. The so-called insider has always been a mystery to me because every meme coin I know of or have invested in, or every project I've been involved with, the most benefit is usually reaped by those engaged in structured transactions, just like in any other business in the world, those closest usually earn the most, or lose the most. So, I don't think that's an insider. I think it's those angry people in the crypto circle who always feel there's an unfair advantage. If you're a genius on-chain and you know how to game Meteora, there are maybe 30 people in the world who are better at it than anyone else. So yeah, but some people think it's...

Coffeezilla: No, that's not right. There are indeed unfair rules of the game; many people know everything about stocks. You can be Warren Buffett, but Buffett and someone who has insider information on a company like Pfizer and uses that information to trade are different. So I think everyone's frustration is not that you're good at trading, but that you know some information the public doesn't know and you've used that information to make trading decisions, which is illegal in the open market; that's called insider trading.

Hayden Davis: Yes, but in meme coins, A, that's not illegal, B, that's the norm for every trade. I mean, every KOL, everyone globally, is making money like this. They know the news of a project, make a deal with the project team, and then make money from it. Like this. If you're accusing this, then you have to accuse everything else. Yes, that's like, I think really...

Coffeezilla: I think this is very bad; I really think this is very bad. For everyone other than insiders, that's my view on meme coins; it benefits insiders.

Hayden Davis: So I think, to be honest, I don't oppose it, but I think most people betting on meme coins, especially those early on, I think it's a separate topic, retail investors, they're all playing this game. And those angry people are precisely those who are not insiders. That's what's happening. All the complaints on social media are from those who couldn’t get into the trade. You'd never hear from them if they were in the trade. So the question is, what do you do? Do you do nothing? Do you stop launching coins? Then what do you do? Then the question becomes that.

Coffeezilla: It's very clear. Making a trade and using information you've gained internally in a project to make a trading decision are two different things. If I get compensated for a tweet, assuming I disclose that—I don't see a problem with that. But if I have information internally in this project and then based on that insider information, buy $1 million worth of coins, I think that's wrong and should be eradicated. If people think these markets should be treated like the stock market, then this is it...

Hayden Davis: I don't think so, and I don't think people should view them as a capital market because they are not a capital market at all; that is not their essence.

Coffeezilla: But you are someone who trades; of course, you should think that way, right?

Hayden Davis: Even so, even in those trades, I am just making a bet. If I put money into it, I think it could go to zero; I have no idea. Right? So I don't treat it as a regular stock; I treat it as a casino because that's its essence.

Coffeezilla: Yes, but strangely, those who always say "Oh, there shouldn't be this regulation, that regulation" are often the ones tilting the table in the casino. I heard Dave or I talking, saying, "Oh, you crybaby trench babies are crying." Well, Doctor, how does it taste? Well, first of all, most trench babies didn't receive a $5 million refund. Secondly, Dave is like, "Oh, you're mad at me because I sold your coin before you." You are...

Hayden Davis: You're mad because you didn't sell.

Coffeezilla: I'm not mad. Of course, the ones controlling the most leverage in the casino are those who say, "We don't think what we say or do should have any rules; as long as we openly declare, hey, I'm going to do this to you, you know, it's fine." Right?

Hayden Davis: But let me say, first, Dave is a good guy. Second, Dave doesn't really understand how meme coins work. He doesn't have, he really doesn't understand, I mean, he just realized a few weeks ago, "Oh, so if I bet on this coin and then talk about it, the price goes up. That's crazy, how did that happen? What should I do? How do I handle this?"

Acknowledging the LIBRA Team's Coin Sniper

Coffeezilla: Wait, I don't want to focus on him because to some extent, I still appreciate his transparency. And this shows a lot of the behind-the-scenes things we don't see. But I just want to make a bigger point, which is, everyone says "Yes, we should ease regulations, not treat these coins like other projects," and these people are often the ones gaming the system or having some interest in it. This is an unfair advantage. Like you said, the complainers are those without an unfair advantage, and the non-complainers are those with an unfair advantage. I think that's a real statement. I want to step away from this topic because, well, these wallets seem to be related to you and your coin issuance, right? For example, in the case of LIBRA, there is a wallet, Dave received a refund from that wallet, he said that wallet is your personal funds, and this wallet is related to an Avalanche wallet, which is the LIBRA sniper. So, if you issued this coin, did you also unfairly participate in this sniper attack?

Hayden Davis: I would like to say no, and there are several reasons why. First, most of the time, as I mentioned before, this is actually a larger topic, as I mentioned in the text message to you. Most of the time, when we are sniping, our goal is to prevent other snipers from entering. So, in any case, I do not snipe, I am not that kind of person. Like, I don't know how to snipe. If you put me in front of a computer and ask me to snipe, I wouldn't even know how to do it. I have never done bots, I don't understand those things at all.

Coffeezilla: But you do not deny that a wallet associated with you participated in sniping LIBRA.

Hayden Davis: I wouldn't say it's associated with me. I would say it's associated with...

Coffeezilla: No, it's associated with the wallet that refunded Dave, and Dave said that wallet was your personal funds.

Hayden Davis: It was just a coincidence that it happened under the pressure of our fund transfer. But that was just a mistake. I mean, if there was any issue, actually, what I mean is, at that time when we re-injected the funds into the market, it would flow back into the market through another wallet, just like the funds we were considering.

Hayden Davis: The so-called "sniping," it could be said to be the project's funds, right? That's what we do, whenever we do that, that's what we do. Most of the time, the purpose of sniping is to prevent other snipers from entering. If the project has enough volume, we use it to ensure it can continue to operate. I think this is difficult for many people to understand.

Coffeezilla: I agree, I agree with that. I think it is indeed difficult to understand.

Hayden Davis: Because you see, like, give you a very good example. If you look at TRUMP, look at those sniping situations, TRUMP's volume is very large, those snipes are not important at all, hardly have any impact.

Coffeezilla: No, wait. That's not right. There was someone who sniped early with $1 million, MELANIA's rug pull, everyone thought it was because of MELANIA, but in fact, that sniper sold tens of millions of dollars' worth of coins.

Hayden Davis: Of course, there was the one who did $84 million, right? I mean, we can argue all day. My point is, when you are part of a team, sniping doesn't always mean it should happen, but what I want to say is, a lot of the time it's for protection. If the volume is large enough, you can take out a portion of it to give others the opportunity to drive the price back up. Because for meme coins, they rise and fall too fast, these projects could collapse within two days. And the only hope is that you have enough funds to fight against those snipers. This is the discussion everyone is having on Solana, everyone who understands these launch methods, will talk about this topic.

Coffeezilla: Do you think the public is aware that when a project launches, the project team will sniper this project? Because I try to look at it in the most forgiving way, assuming that this money is not meant for profit but solely for the project, right? I feel the public is not aware of these secret activities, such as operating through these "side wallets," which in itself is a bit problematic. And the project team is controlling the project's price, which is like a strange form of price manipulation. You might say, "If the price is too high, we'll cut off part of it from the chart." And this also makes the concept of a "treasury wallet" for the team meaningless because it seems you also have a sniper wallet acting as a treasury. There is zero transparency for the public regarding these matters. Frankly, do you think this situation occurs frequently?

Hayden Davis: I think this is something that happens often in all meme coin projects unless they completely collapse and then get recalled, hopefully without anyone screwing up. But I have to say, this is my very transparent attitude, maybe a bit of oversharing, I don't care. All of these things are because some people have already figured out how to take advantage of the blockchain system.

Hayden Davis: When you are the responsible party trying to make these projects last, basically everyone who launches these projects, unless they are just malicious, is trying to figure out how to make these projects last.

Hayden Davis: Like my entire goal coming into this industry was, if you want to hear Dave's story, you can briefly mention it. It's like there was a situation where the Milei team wanted Dave to get involved so they could do some cross-platform promotion, maybe even eventually do an interview similar to what he and Trump did, and even if Dave had a project, there might be some opportunities to benefit their holders, creating another social finance project.

Hayden Davis: It's like we've always been trying to figure out how to do that. And the thing that always messes it up is large-scale sniping. That's the primary factor that makes everything worse, and there's no solution because those people leave, take away eighty million, a hundred million, or even two hundred million, completely fine, while others get scammed, and the project gets blamed.

Hayden Davis: So, um, I think sniping isn't the most ethical behavior in history, is it? No. But I think no one has figured out how to better curb it, especially when the project is just starting to launch, only snipers can see the launch, only snipers can see the contract address. And they have manipulated on Radium, Meteora, and they are pretty confident they have manipulated on Orca as well.

Coffeezilla: So, let me say, I think you guys rug-pulling your own project is just insane. But I will agree that rug-pulling is indeed a huge issue with all these meme coins. I also think insider trading is a big problem. I think both can coexist. Part of rug-pulling is indeed stemming from insider leaks, like in...

Hayden Davis: I disagree.

Coffeezilla: You can disagree, but there are indeed some Alpha groups that, on one hand, look for on-chain information and, on the other hand, look for early contract leak situations. They would pay to get these early contract addresses and then perform rug pulls.

Hayden Davis: Yeah, but so what? So what, what's the issue, what's the solution? You don't launch a project, or do you try to protect it? Well, I ask you, what would you do?

Coffeezilla: Philosophically speaking, I believe meme coins are a zero-sum game that extracts value from the majority of participants, and through its operation, transaction structure, and the mechanism where for someone to make a dollar, someone else has to lose a dollar, it's inherently unfair. So I think from the outset, the overall direction of this industry is fundamentally flawed. But clearly, I would focus on those issues that have unfair elements, such as fraud or insider trading, or things that people generally agree are wrong. Because if people want to participate in meme coins, no problem. But I think if they are to participate, the market should at least be fair. I think meme coins are silly, but even if you want to participate in these silly things, it should still be fair.

It's like what happens at a casino, right? Besides the unfair gambling elements, casinos are also rife with a lot of fraudulent behavior. So they are ultimately strictly regulated. Why are casinos regulated? Because people get scammed. So I think similar things should eventually happen to these projects, although there is currently a strong push to bring everything to regulation.

Admitting Involvement in MELANIA Coin Launch Rug Pull

Coffeezilla: Clearly, I know this is a rather sensitive topic, but I have to ask because it's part of my story. Many people associate you with the MELANIA launch, which is a big question mark for everyone, especially me. The question is, did you participate in the MELANIA launch? Was that launch also rug-pulled?

Hayden Davis: I think I've told you about this before, but I'll say it again. No, I am happy to share the truth, but you're asking a factual question that might put me in great danger, but that's okay, I'll answer. I did participate. I think the team did indeed intend to rug-pull because the amount of rug-pulling with TRUMP was huge. And we are not big rug-pullers, we absolutely are not, we tried to avoid that situation. We did not make any money from the MELANIA team, we did not pull any liquidity.

Coffeezilla: Okay, wow, this is quite a shocking revelation. But I want to zoom in on this point a bit. You mentioned, "We didn't pull any funds from liquidity," but we traced one of the wallets, and that wallet received $1.5 million worth of MELANIA tokens from an address. Then that wallet seemed to sell off the received tokens. So you said you didn't sell any liquidity, but...

Hayden Davis: I didn't. I didn't swap liquidity, nor did I swap it for a single asset. I didn't say no money was sold. Swapping liquidity and selling off liquidity are two different things.

Coffeezilla: Oh, so you swapped, but didn't sell, or was it the other way around?

Hayden Davis: No, the other way around.

Coffeezilla: The other way around? Sold off but didn't swap? Hmm, interesting. Well, were those the two main launches you were involved in? I also heard about launches like Hood, was that you as well? I know these things are quite messy, but I think you are relatively transparent about these things, so I appreciate your candor. You at least seem to be honestly stating these things.

Hayden Davis: Actually, about the $100 million thing, I have to say one thing first. Like these things, all of these things, there's really nothing special. You know, some people try to say, "How is he related to Dave and Milei?" I'm not a special person. I tracked all of this because I wanted to get two things. First, I thought meme coins were a step in social finance. I now realize that this is actually wrong, and everyone wants to kill me because I enabled these things. Second, I think you and others should at least take some time to think about what everyone should do, how people should make money from these projects. Because in reality, there is only one way, right? That is fees, the fees on a large launch are very small. And then there is the platform, whether there has been a rug pull or the project is successful, they can all make a lot of money, and I strongly disagree with this. I completely disagree with this practice. Platforms like Meteora, Jupiter, Bullex, Photon, regardless, they are all making money from transaction fees. Even if people lose money, they still make money, which I think is very wrong. I've told many of the owners of these platforms that this is not right, there should be some refund policy.

Hayden Davis: Anyway, besides all that, the issue is when the system is already broken, and you are trying to fix it, sorting out different launches, different mechanisms, considering starting from high market cap, deciding who should be involved, who shouldn't be involved, how to retain the contract address, how to do marketing without informing people, what should you do?

If this conversation is going to be recorded and made public, I hope there can be at least some thought, because even the smartest people in the crypto industry don't have the answer. They don't have it, no one knows what to do. And I have been constantly thinking, "What should we do? How can we make money cleanly? Is that possible?" You know, um...

Coffeezilla: Fundamentally, wait a second, fundamentally, I think the reason why people in the crypto industry don't have a good answer is because the real answer that no one wants to hear is, something like the "Tulip Mania" scenario, what is a fair way to make money. You can build it in many different ways, but anything that extracts value from the majority of the world is not a good thing by definition. So, I think...

Hayden Davis: Stop talking about value extraction, but every crypto project, whether venture-backed or a meme coin, is about value extraction.

Coffeezilla: No? Hold on, I think there's a difference. The difference is that some things have utility value, although the term is overused, but there are indeed some tools that can do things, provide a certain service, and only then can it be considered valuable. And then there are some things that have absolutely no intrinsic value, right? But...

Hayden Davis: That's still value extraction. Whether it has utility or not, it's the same.

Coffeezilla: Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Like for example, a company like Coca-Cola. You can say they made a lot of money for shareholders, but they also provided a service. You can have different opinions about this service, but at least they provided a product people are willing to pay for, and they provided dividends to shareholders. So whether shareholders invested $1 and got $1 back, they still made money from the dividends.

Coffeezilla: This is not a zero-sum game. Coca-Cola is not playing a zero-sum game. Apple isn't either. These companies in the capital markets are not playing a zero-sum game. They are creating something. That's where their value lies. And in the cryptocurrency space, the initial idea was that, although it was initially a bit speculative, what you should care about is that there is value behind it, there is some kind of financial technology behind it. I think that's the main point.

Hayden Davis: But if you look at any crypto asset, like Bitcoin, for example, Bitcoin's value comes from a large group of people believing it has value and that it is "allegedly" not controlled by anyone. Even at the top, it is essentially a form of value extraction. All cryptocurrencies, whether meme coins or large-scale utility projects, have this nature of extracting value. Ultimately, all our efforts are aimed at avoiding this situation, which would require significant progress to achieve.

Coffeezilla: But this progress is unlikely to occur with meme coins, right?

Hayden Davis: In conclusion, I'm not saying I'm right; I'm just saying this is my perspective. I'm not claiming to be right. However, my thought is that if these meme coins can collaborate, engage in cross-promotion, burn tokens, and increase utility, they may eventually create some potential for social finance. But to reach that point, there will be a lot of silly things happening along the way.

Coffeezilla: Yes, I would be happy to continue discussing this issue. You currently have $100 million in hand, and you are trying to find a solution. We have talked via text before, and my advice may not be perfect, but I think the suggestion is, first, you need to take a snapshot, calculate the gains and losses, identify who has lost money, and distribute the losses proportionally. Once you know these, you can focus on mitigating smaller losses, such as setting a maximum loss amount of $50,000 for one person, assuming that exceeding this amount may indicate a more experienced trader. During the post-mortem, special attention should be paid to less sophisticated investors, such as a user from Argentina who may have just seen Milei's tweet and threw money in or some users from the US who invested around $1,000. You can compensate some of these losses in this way. The drawback is that this requires a lot of time and a data analysis company. Honestly, I think it will take a lot of effort, but this is currently the most reasonable approach considering the current chaotic situation.

Hayden Davis: Yes, I have basically been given four options. If someone is willing to help, that would be great. The message I sent you is not at all meant to tell a "sob story," but I really do need a trustworthy person to help me because I truly don't know what to do. I also don't want to be blamed for a situation I never intended to create.

Hayden Davis: Remember, the trouble is, this is the Milei project of the Argentine government, not the team I am responsible for. I will repeat this a hundred times. I have never thought of getting into this position. In any case, there are several options. The first is no refunds, donate all the money to a non-profit organization in Argentina, and then tell everyone "it's okay." But I think this is really a bad idea. The second option is a refund. But the refund will be based on a series of different metrics, and people will still be angry and will come after me. So I've been advised by many people that this is a bad idea. Although I do believe people should get refunds, even though meme coins are entirely speculative, it's absurd for people to put all their savings into them. I still think, based on my perspective and the view of the analysis company, a refund is still possible based on some price. The third option is to reinject all the money back into the market. I did a calculation to see how much money we have, even in the face of a lot of selling pressure.

Coffeezilla: How much selling pressure is there?

Hayden Davis: How much can we push it?

Coffeezilla: No, how much money is in the bank account right now?

Hayden Davis: Almost 100 million. I'm almost at that number. And then there are fees. So it might be around 110 million, um, around that. About 110 million in cash.

Hayden Davis: Because these tokens can be reintroduced into the market. I made a chart. If we inject all this money into the market, its market cap could rise to around 2.5 to 3 billion dollars, which is close to its all-time high. This at least gives it a chance. And, I have absolutely no responsibility for this, right? Then everyone can say, hey, the money is back in the market anyway. And someone might say, hey, he has bought this token before, and so on. In fact, under no circumstances would I buy this token again. I want to get rid of it. It's a huge nightmare for me.

Coffeezilla: Let me tell you my opinion, because I strongly believe this is a mistake. Let me quickly tell you why this is a disaster, and why it will bring more problems.

First of all, this is an unfair solution. At least a proportional distribution would have attempted to maintain fairness. But what you are proposing is a launch that has already been front-run, taken advantage of by some of the fastest players. The way you are solving the issue is, well, let's do something, which also gives these front-runners and bots a chance to exploit our injected capital again. Once you announce, hey, we are considering doing this. If you are a savvy speculator, you would know, hey, this guy is about to pump the market cap to 2 billion dollars. You can then buy some LIBRA coins at a low price. Now, I'm not recommending anyone to do that. But even when you tell me this idea, it has already created opportunities for insider trading. I could rush in, pool some money, invest in LIBRA, and then wait for you to reinject capital. I could say, hey, Hayden, inject money into the market, do it. If you inject 2 billion dollars, I can make 100 times. That's a disaster. So once you do this, there will be insider trading issues.

Hayden Davis: Why? Why is it a disaster? Why is it a disaster? If I announce that this is my intention, it gives everyone an opportunity, everyone can buy in. Then it's not insider trading. It's a completely free market, everyone knows the money will return to the market, so it's actually fully transparent.

Coffeezilla: But even so, when you decided to buy in, the smarter person profited from it, right? But if that's the case...

Hayden Davis: Exactly. In fact, whether it's the launch or the funding, the result is the same. Either way, it ends up the same. Like you said, whether I refund or reinvest, people will still be angry. Refunding people, that sounds crazy, or reinvesting, people will still be angry. So why...

Coffeezilla: If you just say, hey everyone, of course they may not get all their money back, why would people be angry?

Hayden Davis: Because some people would say to me, hey, give me $1.5 million, or I'll go kill your family. So regardless of whether I refund, I still have to deal with these people.

Coffeezilla: Are you really planning to...

Hayden Davis: Of course not! But now, I have to protect my whole family.

Coffeezilla: No, first thing you should do is get the money out of your hands. You need to find a reputable company, establish a legal structure, get this money out of your hands. That way, you, Hayden, have no control. The reason you're afraid now is because you do have 100% control. But this...

Hayden Davis: Yeah, exactly. But if I were to be very transparent and honest, this is also my leverage over certain groups and angles. In fact, I have control, which makes me a target but also protects me, because this is an international event. This is not a random scam. It's a plan gone wrong at a presidential level.

Coffeezilla: Actually, I agree with your point. This is a plan. So if I...

Hayden Davis: Give it to someone else for safekeeping, yes, even if it's a trusted third party, I would lose my leverage. So, until I get an answer from Javier Milei, until I get an answer from their team, until I get a real game plan. Until then, I will act. I've set a 48-hour window for this issue—until someone comes up with a good plan other than "we need another six months." If that's the right plan, I'll do it. No problem, I don't care at all, I completely agree to give up control. I absolutely don't want to be involved in this anymore. I absolutely don't. But now, the situation I'm facing is: my reputation has been ruined, that's okay, I've become a government target, maybe more. And my only leverage is that I hold this money. So this is not a simple decision, it can't just be "hand the money over to someone else." It's not that kind of story.

Hayden Davis: Firm Belief in Milei's Integrity

Coffeezilla: No, I understand, I understand what you're saying. Indeed, this is not a simple story. When we talk about my suggestion, the first point I made was: this is a problem that needs to be slowly resolved, whatever you do, should be done slowly. You shouldn't rush into action. That's why I said injecting money directly into the market won't solve all your problems. It's equivalent to just giving away money. I do think you should handle this issue with caution. But when you say, if we refund, people will come after me, what I mean is, if you eventually find a trustworthy third party, that will alleviate your concerns about your family being kidnapped, being pressured to pay. Because you actually don't have the money to give them.

That's another issue. But I understand what you mean, that to some extent, the 100 million you have on hand right now is your way of trying to find an answer for yourself. Because Javier Milei has obviously tried to distance himself from you. At first, he said he was part of your team, but then he tried to distance himself from everyone. No one is against this. I certainly would not say that Javier Milei knew about this project and supported it. I think he regrets supporting this project, but that doesn't change the fact that he did indeed support the project, he did indeed endorse it.

But there's a question, which is "how do you handle this money?" I just want to say, I think you should really consider the unfair aspect: the injustice that has occurred has been unchallenged. So when you want to clean up this mess, although it is tempting, to find that simple solution. The simple solution is to reinvest the money into the market, say "this is not my problem anymore, go gamble, you gamblers." But I think the fairer way, the harder to criticize, more responsible way is to find a way to share the loss, to find a way to give this money back to people, and to do it slowly. Because I think given the scale of this money, it must be done this way. But I also admit, I'm not in your shoes, I don't want to be in your shoes. When you say I can help, I feel like, this sounds like a nightmare, I don't want to inherit your $100 million problem, but I do want people to get their money back. So I can only give you what I think is the fairest advice, you have to make the decision and bear the consequences. That's your burden.

Hayden Davis: But also to clarify, like, this is my burden because no one told me what to do, right? I'm in this extreme situation, this is something that I feel people can't understand, but the decisions I made represent the Argentine government, and they have already disassociated themselves from this project. I have no responsibility. If they want a refund, I will do it. If you can understand what I mean, this is an impossible scenario.

Coffeezilla: Did they not give you any instructions? They didn't give you any guidance at all?

Hayden Davis: No one told me what to do. Zero, absolutely nothing.

Coffeezilla: Well, I think Milei definitely panicked because of his own thing.

Hayden Davis: Yes, obviously because of...

Coffeezilla: He will be impeached, right? I'm not sure if he will be impeached, but there will definitely be proceedings.

Hayden Davis: He may not be impeached, but he will definitely be very close to it.

Coffeezilla: This is damaging to him.

Hayden Davis: Of course, it is very damaging to him. I am a staunch supporter of Milei, I believe he is absolutely honest and not corrupt. I think there are many people in Argentina who want to see him resign and have control of the corrupt system again.

Hayden Davis: Anyway, my point is, this scenario is just not feasible. I feel like a sacrificial lamb right now. I will not benefit from this, it has ruined all my reputation, I am completely exposed online, I don't know what to do. I am just a promoter. This is the craziest thing, I'm not even the issuer, nor am I part of the team.

Coffeezilla: Well, when you talk about the team, who are the team members?

Hayden Davis: Kip is a team member. He is the one who should be managing this team.

Coffeezilla: Oh, I see. But you are in charge of issuing the coin, while the one managing the funds should be...

Hayden Davis: From my point of view, I am a launch strategist, I just represent the team in making decisions. Yes, I just make the decisions they want to make.

Hayden Davis: I'm not saying I'm a "behind-the-scenes schemer," thinking about how to make money from it. I'm here to integrate these projects, promote each other, grow and become something useful. That's the only reason I started doing these things. I'm caught in between, there are many things I have no say in, in most cases, I'm just an executor.

Coffeezilla: We have to admit, you did indeed earn millions of dollars from these projects in most cases, right? We cannot deny that.

Hayden Davis: Of course, I didn't do this for nothing. I couldn't possibly say I'm doing this for free.

Coffeezilla: Alright, alright. I'm just confirming that you're not trying to paint yourself as a victim. I understand that your situation is indeed dire, but from a financial perspective...

Hayden Davis: Oh, I am definitely a victim in this situation. I don't intend to make any money from this, but of course, I wouldn't say I'm not profiting.

Coffeezilla: How can we be sure? This is also my concern with issues like "rug pulls." You know, as I said, I can trace the blockchain, I think I might be in the top 1% because most people don't know how to do this. Even if you ask me to identify all the people involved in a rug pull, it would take me a lot of time, and I simply don't have the time; it's just not possible because there are too many transactions, the data is too complex. What I'm trying to say is, when you say "I won't benefit from this," how can you prove that you haven't quietly siphoned off a few million for yourself? It's entirely possible. I'm not accusing you of doing this, I'm not saying you're doing this. But when money moves so quickly, when you have access to so much funding, and there's also front-running, oh, this is to protect the project, how can we ensure this money isn't flowing into your pocket?

Hayden Davis: I think you can use other projects as an example to prove this point. I think in the case of this project, because people have targeted my family, and because the president is involved, it's a completely different game, to tell the truth. I have no interest in profiting from this matter, as it could endanger my life or harm my family. So, it's entirely different from being hunted by drug cartels in Argentina or facing threats elsewhere. I don't want any association with this project, nor do I want to make any money from it. So, you can interpret this in any way you want, but I believe this is a different situation.

Coffeezilla: Interesting. Look, I think you're an interesting character in some ways. You know my views on meme coins, I won't be too hard on you, although I disagree. I also disagree on rug pulls, and many other things. But I find you intriguing because you represent the "behind-the-scenes" aspect. You've seen the inner workings of some of the biggest projects in this world.

MELANIA Coin. What do ordinary people need to know? Just as you said, oh, you know, people should... What are the things behind these projects? How much money did the team make? What is the real insider information? You know, we like it, if you really believe people should know these things, you should tell them. What do you think about these matters, and what really is the insider of the project?

TRUMP, MELANIA, LIBRA - Big Projects are All Insiders' Game

Hayden Davis: I think the best example should be TRUMP's project, because I know that not only did it raise a lot of funding, but it also made the most money. I think that's the best example, honestly. You know? You know people were able to get in on it at half a billion dollars.

Coffeezilla: Are you saying people also sniped that coin?

Hayden Davis: Not quite, what I mean is, before it was released, someone got a special buying opportunity at some private dinner event, right?

Coffeezilla: Hold on, hold on, who provided this opportunity? Who gave it?

Hayden Davis: Some people did it at a crypto event in Washington.

Coffeezilla: If this is true, I don't know if this is true, but if it is true...

Hayden Davis: I mean, big projects like TRUMP, MELANIA, LIBRA, they are all insiders' game. It's like an unregulated casino. If you are a retail trader, thinking you can make money out of meme coins, you better study hard. This is how Pump Fund works, first insiders know, money goes in, price pumps, and who ends up losing money? Who's the last guy holding the bag? That's the game. Every single project is a game. There's not one that isn't. The only exception is those that are completely dead, with just a handful of people deciding to take them over.

Whether it's TRUMP, MELANIA, or LIBRA, or any big project, it can all be considered a game. Just like going to a casino, you know? That's the game. I initially thought these meme coins would turn into useful tools, become big cross-project promotions and fun partnerships, using finance to build closer social bonds. But it's clearly not the case right now. I don't even want to keep doing this anymore, don't even know how to. My pump strategy is all matured. Even today, even with so much hate, 20 people are still asking me, when are you doing this project? It's crazy, but that's the game. It's an unregulated game.

Coffeezilla: Do you think this is a mistake? Do you think opening up this floodgate of things was a mistake? Because you basically said this is a bad idea.

Hayden Davis: I think most people would think so, yes. Just like, you know, three days ago I had a different view. My current view is that I am very supportive of removing everything from the regulated market, but now I realize that it is just another game. I think it is an insider's game. Whether it's politicians like Pelosi or certain people in the stock market, it's an insider's game, just in another form, and people need to be more careful. But the capital market is just an insider's game. The whole market is like this, and I will never be convinced that it is not manipulated. Banks spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year doing illegal things because that way they can make more money. Otherwise, I can go on.

Coffeezilla: Well, yes, I just want to point out that if your argument about the capital market is "they are being controlled," then, in fact, you are providing more evidence for more regulation rather than less regulation. You wouldn't see a rigged game and then say, "Hey, everyone, let's remove all the rules that were originally put in place to prevent it from being manipulated," right?

Hayden Davis: Then you have to trust the regulators, and most regulators are bought off, this has been repeatedly proven. Because...

Coffeezilla: But again, seeing the conclusion of the world's issues is not "you realize the brakes don't work," and then say, "Hey, the brake manufacturer is corrupt, so let's just not have brakes," but rather to find ways to address the problem, to push for more regulation, and to push for the establishment of more rules. Saying "it's all manipulated" is not the counterattack people think it is, do you understand what I mean?

Hayden Davis: Of course. But for me, those things are actually irrelevant because fundamentally, those who hold the most capital, the most resources, and the most control, are always the insiders, in any market. In any field, they always win, never lose. This rule is universal.

Coffeezilla: I can't argue with that.

Hayden Davis: So, like I tell people about meme coins, meme coins are unregulated, highly volatile. There are insiders, snipers, crazy operations inside. In fact, those at the top are most concerned about these things. Just like I talked to some people, although I don't intend to reveal their names, they are not actually bad people, they are all trying to figure out how to do it. Most people are working very hard to figure out how to make this thing sustainable. But no one gets it right, no one gets it right. And I am sure that massive projects like LIBRA will help create structure. But you know, I didn't get those phone calls, and when things got tough, they all disappeared. So I just thought, "Forget it."

In fact, I have a lot to lose. I have a family, and there are many things in my life that I can lose, including my reputation, and so on. So I thought, forget it. I'll just go all in. Anyway, some people said not to talk to you, said you would mess me up, but at that time I thought, buddy, you are a rational person, let's chat and see how it goes. That was my only choice, either go all in, face the consequences, or don't go all in and forever be known as a fraud, but I know I am not.

Coffeezilla: I do agree with what you just said. No matter how many issues there are, being clear about your stance is much better than letting everyone guess and have others tell your story. I generally think that is the right thing to do. You know, I'm not unwilling to tell the truth. I'm not trying to fix anyone's image, nor do I intend to do so. I just want to tell the story as it actually happened. So when I play this video, I will play the entire content, except for the parts you told me not to play. I won't edit, I will present it in full so that everyone can see your side of the story.

I think you are much more transparent than many people in this situation, although they may also be very scared. When you said "people disappeared," I think they are scared, like Javier Milei might be scared of reputation issues, I think Kip's Julian is also scared of reputation issues, partly because he was initially portrayed as a villain. You know, there are many people here who are very scared. But I think it's a good thing that you can tell your story and answer these questions. Now, I don't think what's happening here is good, but I think your honest attitude is helpful. So I want to thank you for that.

Hayden Davis: I want to say a few things, I don't know if a summary is needed, but I want to emphasize a few points. First, I just want to reiterate, not only because I believe this, but because it needs to be said: Javier simply does not understand cryptocurrency. I think he understands a little, I think he is smart and knows some things about blockchain, but I don't think he realizes what he has done. So I want to say this, I fully support him, I think he is the savior of one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and this country has the opportunity to become less corrupt. So, I want to say this.

Second, I share this story with some hope. I did not expect to share it to this extent, but I think it is necessary to point out: just because there is a narrative of "all the KOLs," I don't know if you consider yourself a KOL, maybe you don't think so, but you all are making money either by sharing content or making money from trades, these are the two ways you make money, right? Or maybe it's through brand endorsements and the like. These are all not important, in the end, it's because you are constantly spreading content. And your content, in this situation, has had a huge impact on my family and put me in great danger.

Although I am not the main character here, and I do not want to be the main character, that is why I have always stood in the position of a facilitator. So I hope people can understand this: I do not need to be a victim, I am not. But I hope people can have a little sympathy because I may need security in the foreseeable future, I may face great difficulties, which I do not want. I did this 100% willingly, I did not receive any money from this transaction. I am doing this as an advisor to Milei, and I hope to further advance other dialogues, promote other blockchain technologies, and drive other projects through this.

I do not care how much money this transaction can make, other than that, of course, I cannot say I have never made money from it, that's just silly. But in the end, no matter how you publish this content, no matter how you recount it, I at least hope there can be a little light shed on one fact: I am not a scammer, and I do not believe LIBRA is a dead project. In fact, I believe Milei will support it. By the way, we'll know tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. But I bet he will support it. I think in his current predicament, supporting it is more advantageous for him.

Coffeezilla: Getting back to my core question, assuming one hundred million dollars could find the right person. The issue is with the sniping, this kind of covert sniping, you basically said someone asked you to do this, right?

Hayden Davis: Yes, I mean, well, this matter is quite complex. So this should be a longer story.

Coffeezilla: Did you benefit from these snipes? I think this is the question everyone is asking: Are you launching a project? Do you know the project will launch, and then you profit through super early investment, making money?

Hayden Davis: No. So the answer is currently I have not benefited from it, to be honest, I do not know either. These are considered financial assets. Again, what I want to emphasize is that many people do not understand the complexity of these coin launches, especially when you initiate these launches, you are competing with some of the best snipers in the world, who can easily make 10 million, 20 million, 30 million from these big projects and then leave. And within a few seconds, they will sell off these assets, they will sell according to their own will, not following any dynamic liquidity management model (DLMM) or centralized liquidity management model (CLMM) strategy, or saying "Well, there is $1 billion in trading volume here, this won't affect the token price," they won't consider anything, they just want to dump.

So one of the ways to curb this behavior, although you can say this is... well, okay, is to try to get the token out with sniper help, so that there is a higher market cap in the market for you to enter at the beginning, and retail investors don't see this opportunity at all. Retail investors always see it 10 minutes later, after the price has already risen 10 times, 20 times. So we are also trying to help retail investors, but no one sees this. Everyone just sees "Oh, insiders are manipulating" or "Oh, it's a sniper." This is actually much more complicated than imagined. What people see is just the profits, not the reality. The goal of each of these projects is to reach one to two years. No team has the mindset of "we want to make big money from the start." So I want to make this point whether anyone believes it or not, this is 100% fact.

Coffeezilla: I just feel like if you really want to increase the market cap, I think you can design your liquidity pool in a way that the price can reflect it, or you don't necessarily have to do one-sided liquidity. There are many ways you can do this without needing to...

Hayden Davis: They are not all one-sided.

Coffeezilla: Right, well, I mean you can create a structure, I think in this structure, a lot of things can happen without needing to sniper.

Hayden Davis: But the intent is there. Unfortunately, no matter how you do it, it will still be sniped. You can launch at a $1 billion market cap, you can launch at a $500 million, $200 million, or $300 million market cap, they will all be sniped.

Coffeezilla: It's kind of like this, well, I finally came up with an analogy: you're basically like a bank, right? And then you say, "Hey, there's money in the bank, come on, everyone can come and play." But then you also say, "I'm worried someone else will get to my bank vault first, so I'll take the money myself first and put it back later." And then we all watch with wide eyes, well, are you really going to put the money back? It becomes a strange trust game that we have to play.

Hayden Davis: It does sound like cryptocurrency indeed, but can, well, yes, I think that's not the worst description. Okay, every such launch process is like this. Everyone is asking: how do we fairly launch these projects without being sniped? Is it through large-scale pre-marketing? In that case, all snipers will know. Or is it through a stealth launch, and then some people eventually figure it out? I don't know. Things always happen this way. You and others haven't given me a practical answer, which is why I have been blamed all along. But no one has come up with a solution, telling me, "What should we do that is reasonable? What's the point of doing this?" Because everything is on the blockchain, to some extent, it can be seen.

Coffeezilla: Everything is indeed on the blockchain. Well, I've talked about my views on meme coins before.

I think you've covered most of the key points. I want to thank you for telling your story. Like I said, I may not fully agree with your views, but I think you have brought to light many important issues that were not previously touched upon. I think this will be an important interview, and I am very grateful.

Hayden Davis: Alright, take care, bye.

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